Making Your Audience the Hero & The Power of the Pause w/ John Bates (Part 2) - Ep. 5

SPEAKER_00 0:10

And I and again it goes back to imposter syndrome. Man, walking in the door, I was terrified that they were just gonna laugh me out of the room. And after two days, I got the kind of comments that showed me that it had really been useful. And then I got that recommendation later. And uh and I'm really glad I didn't give in to that, you know, imposter syndrome and just did what I do.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Well, yeah. No, and I think it can be, yeah. That's I mean, that's certainly an intimidating room to walk into, you know. And I'm sure there's and I'm sure that's a lot of uh did you did you find that what you thought was gonna be their response to that uh you know biological emotional part of communication was how much of that was a stereotype from what we you pr you thought that military people, uh, especially in that kind of environment were like versus uh like were they, you know, they did you find that they were just uh no different to anyone else who is not, you know, uh safe bombs. They're just not just they're just they're just humans.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

They're human beings, right? I mean, and I think these human beings have an extraordinary level of commitment and they have an extraordinary level of training, and they're human beings, you know, and that and I definitely was letting my fear of stereotypes, you know, my stereotype of of what that was all gonna be like, uh have me just be really scared about going in there, you know. And um, and I'm I'm proud of myself because that was one of those times when it took a real effort to just let that stuff go and come from a place that was purposeful, that empowered me, do what I promised I was gonna do, even though I was afraid of how it might go over. And, you know, and I didn't let those stereotypes run the show, and I didn't let my fears run the show. And, you know, I put those things purposefully in the back seat and I seat belted them in so they couldn't get out, and I went in purposefully with who I wanted to be and who I was committed to talking to them like they were in that front seat, and I had trained to stay true to what I create versus letting the the stuff in the backseat out, and you know, that's that's what had that work out.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

You know, you so you talk about um the fears that you had going into that, and I think you know that's definitely something that I uh have dealt with, and you know, I think everyone will continue to deal with uh as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I was with 50 people in a room for a day training them, all very experienced speakers, and every single one of those 50 people was a doctor. I was super intimidated, you know, but I just went and did what I did. I put all that monkey mind chattery stuff in the back seat and belted it in, and I stayed with what I promise I will bring. And sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

No, you're good because it's I mean, I think uh part of communicating effectively is being able to overcome that challenge of nerves. And I actually have it's on my Kindle, it's your the sticker, uh, a sticker that you you uh was at um in Tampa two years ago, and um, and it's uh become somewhat of a mantra for me uh for moments like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Snoopy Doggy Dog, baby.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah, I mean it um don't be nervous, be at their service.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Um Bingo, that's Snoop Doggy Dog.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, well how can uh what are some of the what are some of the tools uh that people can use to when they are nervous going into whether it's a speaking event or uh uh just a even just a conversation. Um how can someone overcome nerves?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So this is this this is a great question. And uh that advice from Snoop Doggy Dog was some of the best advice I ever got in my life about leadership, about public speaking, just about life, right? Don't be nervous, be it, there's service. And what I and I got the same advice a little while later from one of the top leadership coaches anywhere in the world, and she said it a little differently. She said, John, if you get up on stage and you have your attention on yourself, then you have your attention on a minor ball of petty concerns that's of no real interest to anyone but you. Ouch. But it's true. She said, if, however, you get up on stage or you step into that conversation or wherever you are, and instead of having your attention on yourself, you have your attention on the audience and the difference that you're gonna make for them and on your message and the difference that your message is gonna make for them and that they're gonna make for the people in their lives because of it. Well, now you have your attention on something worth thinking about. Don't be nervous, be at their service. So here's the here's the coaching. So the simple, funny coaching is just stop being so narcissistic, right? But that's not really helpful. So here's the real coaching. When you notice you're nervous, which we all are, we can notice that, right? But sometimes it takes a minute, right? Like I might be walking around for a while feeling nervous and not really realizing it. But when you name it, go, oh wow, guess what? I am nervous. And then say, that's all about me. I'm gonna put that in the backseat and I'm gonna focus on my audience and my message. And I will walk around my house feeling nervous about the tomorrow, you know, flying out and speaking to 50 doctors. I'll walk around my house and I'll remind myself it's not about me, it's about them. And I'll picture them, even though I have no idea what they look like, but I'll picture being in a room with 50 people, I'll picture the difference that my message is gonna make for them. I'll picture the difference that they're gonna go out and how my message can amplify the difference they're making. And I'll just get myself really organized around being over there with them instead of over here. And then a little bit of the nervousness goes away. But once I get my attention focused on the audience instead of myself, I call the feeling I still have, maybe I'm a little sweaty, maybe I'm my voice is shaking a little bit. I call that excitement. Once I'm focused on the audience, I'm excited, right? It's not nervous and focused on myself. I'm now excited and focused on them. And that little mental jujitsu in the days or weeks or even months leading up to that nerve-wracking thing that is about that you're about to do, that will be a great mental exercise that will change things significantly.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Okay, no, that's yeah, that's so really it's uh it's a matter of reframing um where your focus is. Uh, because you know, when you when you say the um that's your focus is internal on yourself, um it it almost when you said that it almost made me feel like um a sense of oh that's I'm being selfish right now. Um which is the joke, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Like I don't want you to really feel bad, but it kind of is, right? It kind of is like I'm worried about what they think of me, like it's me, me, me in that equation, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Right. And so how big how big of a part uh and how important in communication is uh is something like listening? To communicate effectively, I feel like the ability to listen is which you know might sound contradicting a little bit, you know, in order to communicate, you must listen. But how big of a role does that play?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So first of all, when I'm speaking in a room of 50 people or 500 people or 5,000 people, I'm speaking, and there are 50 or 500 or 5,000 people who are listening. So the first thing that dawned on me at a certain point is oh my gosh, these things have been misnamed. I go out to give a talk, right? They call them TED talks. Okay, it's not a talk, it's a listen. I've done it before when no one's listening and I'm talking, it makes zero difference, you know. So, first of all, talks shouldn't even be called talks, they're called, they should be called listens, right? And one of the biggest transformations of my life was when, so I won't go into the whole long story, but ultimately one of my best friends in the world called me on the phone the morning after I had been over at his house for dinner with this girl they wanted to introduce me to because I was single and I was lonely and I was sad because I'd lost my company. And he called me up the next day and goes, Dude, what was wrong with you? You didn't let anyone get a word in edgewise last night. You just talked and talked and talked. You just sucked the air out of the room. And listen, it was not the first time I had ever done that. And boy, did that hurt to hear that. And I like that was one of the most just shocking, hurtful slaps in the face I have ever gotten. And the only reason he had the courage to tell me is because he was my best friend, and that's why he told me, and that's how it landed. And so I was like, okay, I need to do something. So I found this cool poster from World War II that somebody had doctored, and I will send this to you. We could give this away to people. I have two versions, one's a little more kid friendly, but I will send this to you if people want it. But I but it's this guy with his helmet all jaunty, he's got a big old cup of, you know, like a cup of coffee, and it says, How about a nice big steaming mug of shut the up, right? Dude, and I have another one that says try listening, if people would reina, but but I printed out the how about a nice big steaming mug of shut the f up, right? And I put that, I probably printed out 10 copies of that, and I put it everywhere in my house, everywhere that I looked, the fridge, the bathroom, the bedroom, my office, everywhere, the front door as I left, right? I would see it. And I made myself the promise that when it was my turn to talk in a conversation, I would not say a word. I would count to 10 1,000 quietly in my head, while I just gently sat there and smiled and didn't say anything, right? Not make it weird or anything, just not gonna talk. And I count, I promised myself that for the next like several months, six months, I was gonna count to 10 1,000 before I said a word when it was my turn to talk in a conversation. And I totally did that, but I never made it past 41,000. And it's not because I have no self-control. I saw, I know you thought, no, I'm kidding, but it's not because I had no self-control. It's because by the time I got to 41,000, they would say something else. And what became very clear to me very quickly is I would never have heard that thing they told me. And sometimes it was deeply personal, and sometimes it was like what their budget was, and maybe they shouldn't have told me because they might have gotten a better price if they didn't tell me what their budget was or what, but it was all these amazing things that were very interesting and helpful to me that I was never gonna hear if I didn't just STFU and count to 10, 1,000 when it was my turn to talk in a conversation. And that completely transformed my life. That was one of the greatest experiments I have ever run. It led to some of the biggest changes in who I showed up as. Because another thing I realized, Jerome, is when somebody would tell me a story for my whole life, I thought it was connecting me to them for me to tell them a story that was like their story, right? No, no. What I realized in that period of really STFU listening was that occurs for other people, like I'm one-upping them. That was never my goal. That was not what I wanted at all. I wanted to connect. But you know what really connects when I asked them a question about the story they just told me, instead of telling them a story like the story they just told me, right? I started realizing that I could ask them a few questions about it and engage with their story. And then maybe at some point my story would come up, but it would be a totally different way of occurring when it finally came up, right? Then at that point it might really actually connect us, but not if I just played one back to them, you know. So that whole moment of counting to 10, 1,000 was just dude, that changed my life and it changed how I show up for other people, you know. And I still talk too much, it's probably easy to tell, but not like I did.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

No, that's um yeah. I mean, that's uh it's I mean, that's uh, you know, books like uh uh it's it escapes me. The the uh the Chris Voss uh never split the difference news for negotiation.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, yeah, I I like his stuff. I think my stuff is a lot like that, but you're totally right.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Well just one of his tactics for negotiating is is the power of the pause, and it's something I've tried to implement in different uh especially uh if there's ever been a you know a tense conversation or uh in those negotiation type conversations, um and it's super super uncomfortable pausing, but it's I found the same thing. Then it's most people are not that you know they again you're not the only one that is uncomfortable. Uh that's a common denominator, and then they are uh you know, it was it's like a game of silent chicken. Uh and I found that when I do that, more often than not, the other person breaks the silence, and then that's where they and then they kind of you know word vomit because it's so uncomfortable to sit there in the silence, and then they you know you get information, yeah. Like you said, you wouldn't have otherwise. Um right.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I I mean, and you know, I think a lot of times that gets characterized as like a battle, and you're stronger and tougher if you can tough out the silence. I don't think of it like that. I think I am really genuinely there to try to listen and connect with them. And if I can just be silent for a little bit longer, they're gonna give me some key insights into where they actually are and what they actually want and what's actually going on with them. And so for me, it's a power of pausing and holding back on saying what I want to say with the intention of really being able to hear their most important, deepest thoughts, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, and um it's uh this makes me think of um you know, obviously, something that you uh anyone who searches uh you online can will see uh that is um is the and something that I remember that you um said on that uh two years ago was the um don't be the hero of the story. Um and you portray it better than um than anyone uh ever with uh your uh your Star Wars the lightsaber demonstration.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Bring my lightsabers everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Never leave home without them, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

No, never leave home without your lightsabers.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

But I mean that you know that may has made it stick with me. Um and I think that goes into you know, that's what where this that make uh what you were just talking about, that's where it makes me uh leads me to think uh of it's when it's you make it about the other person, uh, and it's not you know, like I I really have not thought about it as far as it's like trying to one up them or it's being perceived that way if they share a story, then you share a story. Um when instead of just going into what they shared deeper, because um you know, like it it truly does feel like sharing a s a comparable story is like a way of relating to the person, which is kind of right, but I uh now it you know I mean that story really does uh it does show a little bit more clearly the other uh the other view from you know from their shoes. Yeah, how I I can see how that can be uh kind of make it a competition. And you know, those are the worst conversations uh that I you know that I think anyone ever is a part of is those ones that it's like it feels like it's is this this battle of getting trying to get a little bit of an edge in us. I hate those. Um because it's just so confrontational and there's friction and it just feels like you know it's just who can get one percent more leverage in a and it uh and like like a battle, like you said, but um how do you how do you make yourself the Yoda and like in your um in your demonstration and your example? Um like how can someone you know actually go and do that, even if that it makes sense the concept to make the other person the hero of the story and whatever, because I think yeah it applies to every single type of scenario, but um you know what about in like a uh if someone is trying to close you know a new you know a new accountant or a business or a new client or a new customer or a big deal, um and how would they do that?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

So I you know it's a great question. And here's the saying: the saying is don't be the hero of your own talk, make the audience the hero. That's Nancy Duarte. Don't be the hero of your own talk, make the audience the hero. Don't be Luke, the hero of Star Wars, be Yoda or Obi-Wan, right? The mentor. And so, you know, I was just on the phone with a friend of mine yesterday coaching him in this for his marketing business. And, you know, we came down to uh kind of a closing to make the audience the hero of something like, you know, uh your business is phenomenal, right? You what you do makes a huge difference for your clients. And we want to see you growing and thriving and making that difference more and more and more. And with the tools that we can provide you, you know, take this lightsaber of all of our marketing expertise and all of our 50 years of combined experience doing this stuff since the beginning and leverage this to go succeed. Even more. We're going to be here. We're going to be on your team. We're going to be cheering for you. And we're going to be doing a lot of the hard work and heavy lifting to get these tools working for you. Right. And if you're raising money, you know, we've got a, you know, like let's say we're raising money for a medical device that saves lives. We've got this medical device, and there are people that are quite actually dying to have it. And with your support and with your investment, we can get this device to people who are quite actually dying to have it much sooner, much faster, much better. We'd love to invite you to be a part of doing this. You could save those lives. Right?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, and and I mean, and that also does pull on the emotional heartstrings. And it uh also It's an emotional connection.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

It's a real emotional connection. Man, if you make that investment, those people that are dying now, you could save their lives. That's real, you know. Yeah. No, that's people are afraid of like people are often afraid to say that stuff because they've seen other people do it as a manipulation or do it like unskillfully. I'm not talking about that. Don't, you know, manipulation, that's the dark side. That's these same tools of influence for the dark side. It's selfish, it's yucky. But when you're when you've got everybody's best interests at heart and you're being authentic and you use these tools of emotional connection and all the other things that I teach, that's like swinging the lightsaber for the for the light side of the force, right? And that's what I call influence versus the other side manipulation.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Yeah, no, I think that's, you know, it's you know, this is you know the root, you know, the or the essence of this all kind of comes back to human behavior. And um, you know, Chase Hughes uh is someone who um put that, you know, the very similarly with the like these are like these are the tactics, and then how you use them determines if you're going to use them for good or for bad, and you can choose to use them for good. Uh, but also is why like these same tactics that make great salesmen, for example, uh, are they uh the things that the tactics they do, the traits that they share, are also the same that make uh make up great cult group recruits. Yep, yep. Right? Or you know, you know, like uh I'm sure you've heard people say, like, you know, drug dealers are also great salesmen, but they're just salesmen, great businessmen often, running all kinds of, you know, keeping track of all kinds of stuff. Yeah, and so it's it's like how you use those tactics is you know, is how is what impact you have, you know, if you're gonna recruit someone into a cult or you're going to um you know be part of a a company or uh some kind of mission with a greater purpose that makes a an actual positive impact on the world. And it's like the I guess it really comes down to uh your your choice on how you use that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Um Yep, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

What you know you've over your uh over your career you've um you've been around you know, NASA astronauts and Navy Special Operations, and you know, I see over uh your shoulder right there a picture of you and uh Richard Branson and like and countless other people that you know I know uh that I've you know I've read their books and uh and m a lot of you know a lot of other people, entrepreneurs, or you know, some you know, some of those core books that they um you know that you you have to read uh and a lot of other prominent people and what what are some of the traits between those, you know, um those people like uh that are in their own way successful and through a lot of people's eyes successful in in different ways. Um what what are things that they uh they all have in common uh when it comes to leadership and communication and uh like what what is you know what is the some of those things that they all share?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

You know, uh one thing that they all share is and you know, and man, I'm always so grateful for this because it's so much less fun when this isn't present. But all those people that you just mentioned, all those people that I've worked with, they are all really interested in learning, and they are really, really willing and open to bring beginners' mind. They're willing to reconsider things, they don't come in all full of what they know. They come in ready to learn, they come in interested to be better, and then what's great about that is they're all super freaking brilliant. So I give them principles and then they go out and do these amazing things I would probably never think of and make me look really good because I coach them, you know. So that's always kind of nice. Um and then uh the other thing, a mentor of mine, RB Hackenberg, who, you know, I still talk to him every week. Uh he said to me years ago when we had BigWords.com and I had hired him to be my boss there, and he was one of the absolute linchpins of everything that we did that was super successful, because we didn't end up, you know, we didn't up end up ultimately succeeding, but we had a bunch of huge successes, and they were all he was the linchpin of those things. Um, he said to me early, early on when we were talking about what made great leaders that he saw Peter Gruber, who is uh, you know, was a very successful businessman, um, you know, very successful leader. He said, you know, I was just at an event with him the other night, and what really stood out for me about him is something that I've noticed about great leaders throughout my life. It was just obvious that he loves people. And uh I was I I that had just I've never forgotten that exchange with RB. I I can still be back there in you know 1999 or something, standing there having that conversation with him. I can put myself back there in an instant and I I just rings through my head all the time. And I try to be that person and try to really let how much I love people guide my leadership and and who I show up as in the world. And I think I could easily say all those people love people, you know, otherwise they wouldn't put up with all the BS they have to put up with and go to all the trouble they go to, you know. Um, so they they're not doing it simply for the money. A lot of them are super rich, but that's like we were talking earlier, more of a byproduct than the goal, you know?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, it's no, it's it's interesting when you talk about um about loving people, right? And it's um that's actually one of uh our company uh core values is love as a strategy, uh, which is something early on I learned when I fired uh when I hired my uh the first person who joined me on my team, this was six or seven months after starting uh the company, I thought um that there had to be a a line between, you know, a business relationship, you know, with uh a team member and a personal relationship, and that those two could not intertwine in any way. Like that I that I thought that I was like I not I cannot let myself become your friend because of the things that uh you know the a blurring of lines and boundaries, and uh, you know, and that's you know, that's just that's something you know, one of the many things that uh I have gone into thinking something else and then changing my mind later after experience. Um and there was um because especially when that's against my human nature, um yeah, and so it I one it created an internal battle uh where I had to stop myself uh from uh from forming a relationship like that and caring too much uh and crossing that line into where I just it naturally was you know wanted to go. Um and we had no relationship. We like I felt like it was uh it was impossible to connect uh with her. Um, and it was like it was it was a struggle for me to be able to do that, and I felt you know it I was always second guessing myself, and it's like what am I doing wrong? And then it was one day um um uh it was March 31st of last year that uh and she lives local here, uh, and she's you know um some of uh my wife and I's best friends are uh is her older sister. So like that also created a um you know an environment when we were in social settings together, it was uh made it even more difficult because it wasn't uh uh there there wasn't just the only see you in inside of business settings, right? It was also uh you know uh in social settings. And um, so it was March 31st last year. I um since she was local, I said, let's go out because she likes golf and I was just and I like playing golf as well. So let's go out today, um, play around of golf. Um and we went and we didn't talk about business stuff, about client stuff, about anything like that. We just I just lit, I just I I I had to try something different, so I just lit it, uh lit down, you know, the uh or stopped myself from fighting it. And um and since then uh she's become a great friend. Uh it's helped our communication. Um she has become uh she has grown so much uh since that day as well, uh, because we're able to have these conversations and um and then everyone who has joined our team uh after that point, I made it a point to not fight that, and um, and and I tell my team too um uh quite frequently like that I you know I genuinely love them and I because I really do. Um and I've realized how powerful of a str like of a strategy and uh that is um because the other way went against everything that was natural and made it very transactional, and I hate transactional relationships, and it was like um, you know, and I think you know that can lead people to uh, you know, it I think it can lead to a tendency to be even over trusting sometimes, and as a result of that, sometimes you'll get burnt, but um I still wouldn't have it any other way.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Um after learning that and I would say that you know that it's a strategy of authentically loving the people you work with. And dude, I totally I you know I just left this big event with the 50 doctors and the woman who brought me in. I'm gonna be working with all of them for the next year. You know, they're gonna put me on retainer, I'm gonna fly around and watch them. And and she said, John, it's it's so great to have met you. We're really great to have you on the team, and I'm so glad to have you as a friend. That's how I want to live, right? Like I spend my whole time, uh my whole life is work, right? I want to be friends with the people I work with. And I think that when it's in a work context, it's a rigorous love, right? Like I have a uh one of my billionaire clients in Hong Kong says that his he loves his team and it's like an elite sports team, right? If you're not performing, we'll still love you. You just can't be on the team, right? So people still have to perform, right? And and I have a client of mine who let someone go and we talked about it before he did. So he went in and and did what we came up with. He said, Look, I hired you because you're brilliant. And you have not been performing here. We've had several meetings, we've talked about it. I've asked what I could do, and you're still not performing. So today I'm gonna have to let you go. But I want you to know I think you're brilliant. It's why I hired you. It's why we're talking to each other right now, and I'm letting you go because I want you to go find that place where your results can match the brilliance that I know is inside you. Done. A month later, this guy who owns a garage door company in Wyoming sees the guy that he fired at the grocery store. And the guy, my client has a cane. He's an old guy, and he says that guy locked eyes with him and made a beeline for him, and he didn't know what was gonna happen. He's like, is he gonna come over here and deck me or what? And the guy walks up to him, locks, you know, eyes locked, gives him a big hug in the grocery store in Montana, and says, Thank you so much. I found that place. Dude, I mean, it's just being open for the whole ride. It's just loving people with your whole heart and being willing to bring some rigor to that, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, no, and I think that's you know, in a business environment or you know, uh similarly, a uh, you know, a sports team environment where performance is an important part of that.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

You know, some of the best sports teams that I've been on that we had the most success were also the ones that there was that brotherly type love uh between everyone, which came with tough love sometimes. Uh were you know, like your best friend who told you not necessarily what you wanted to hear, but what you needed to hear. Um, and being able to love someone so much that you will be uh you can be completely honest with them and tell them those things uh and share that uh because you love them and because you want them to be better and you see the potential inside them. Um what's better than that?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, no, that's that's what we really all want, I think. And Jerome, I need to jump because I work, I have a nonprofit, I don't know if I've told you about it, that I'm a co-founder of called warriorside.org. And we support Navy SEALs in particular, special operators, veterans, and first responders in conscious storytelling so that they can tell their story and heal and reconnect with themselves, reconnect with their families, reconnect with their communities, because we think connection is the real medicine to stop the epidemic of veteran suicide. So I got to jump to a call with this guy. Um, I got a minute to wrap it up, but um give me a chance to tell you about Warrior Side, which I don't think I've mentioned yet, but I'm really proud of it. We we've been doing this for about a year now, and um so it's pretty fun, it's pretty exciting, it's a great way to use my skills to maybe even actually save lives. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

That yeah, no, that's amazing. And um uh John, thank you so much for for being here and sharing all of your wisdom and your story. Um You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

I can talk to you all day, Jerome. We'll we'll have to do this again whenever you want, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah, no, likewise, and and you know, uh you have had a a huge impact on me, and um and so where where can people find you to work with you uh because the impact that you you have uh people need.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Thank you. You know, I I'm really, really active on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn.com forward slash in forward slash johnbaits. And uh you can find me at johnbaits.com and uh you know my Instagram is johnkbaits, but that's mostly just pictures out the plane window and like how excited I am to be going to a new place. Um but LinkedIn I put up, I I mean I go to great lengths to put up free, useful content there, and people can reach me there easily. Johnbaits.com, same thing. Um I'm I'm in the midst of revamping the website a little bit, but people can contact me via the website, comes directly to me. And uh, you know, I would be super happy to give you, I'll send you those uh, you know, STFU posters, and I would be happy if you want to. Um, I can also uh send you a link so that people could get those origin story documents from me if they would like to get the origin story documents and work on their own origin story. I'd be happy to you know jumpstart that.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Thank you. No, that would be amazing, and I'll put all of those links and all the the stuff that you share in in the show notes so people can find it easily. But John, thank you so much. Um you're so welcome. You're an amazing human being. I'm so glad that I get to call you a mentor and a friend. So um thank you, John.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

You are very welcome. I'm glad you're in my life, Jerome. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here.