Building Go-to-Market Communities People Actually Want to Join w/ Paul Jones (Part 2) - Ep. 10

SPEAKER_01 0:10

The reason why I like social learning theory is it feels like you're just starting down the river. You don't know where this conversation is going to go. You don't know what rapids you might encounter. So crafting or facilitating or guiding people and helping them feel excited, um, anticipatory about a conversation with people that they don't know, I think that that can feel like going down a river because you don't know ultimately where the conversation's going to take you. And that what I try to do is make it so that that part of it feels fun. The fact that you don't know where this conversation is going to go. Some people I've worked with are like, dude, you you wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We don't have everything scripted out. No, you can't tell me where this event is gonna what's gonna happen at the end of this event. No, I cannot tell you. It's up to the participants, and some people just cannot handle that. A lot of people love it, some people can't handle that, but I think that's how you um that's how you build relationships and that's how you build connections. I mean, look at Burning Man. Burning Man, everyone shows up and and you just start to trade. Like the we don't know what the outcome is gonna be. We're just trading for stuff, you know, and and people love it. People go to it every year. It's huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Yeah, no, and this, I mean, I feel like what you just what you just said is uh is very much uh it it makes me what it makes me think of is uh something you know sometimes I have to remind myself uh but it it's it's something that is is really core to how I try to approach life every day is uh of just trusting the journey wherever it goes, and because it is fun. Like if you knew where if you knew exactly how your life was gonna unfold, how boring would that be?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

But um, you know, it's uncertainty, uh you know, it's like I feel like that creates that excitement, but then uh you know, in these settings too, and you don't know, and I feel like that's I mean, those are the conversations too that I feel like are the most fruitful and the c biggest connections do develop in my own experience too, because you know, like I I think we're you know, I think we've all been a part of some of those that are like forced in. It's like, all right, you you know, talk about this, say you know, talk about this, and you kind of go around a circle, and it's like and it's all everything uh that's gonna be addressed is is already been picked out, and it's like there's already kind of a roadmap, and you kind of know, and it's like that's not very fun, and um but like with no uh no agenda, then I feel like it it lets everyone uh just be themselves in a way, you know? So if so if how how do how do you do that with Briggio? Like say if I were to come uh I would have come to you uh and say Briggio, can you help us? Can you help Arrowhead? We we have a team, we're gonna meet in person, uh, most of us for the first time in person. How can you help us uh and guide us through creating uh an experience like that? Like, where do you start?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Um, that is a great question. I always usually start with defining who the participants are going to be. So when I for Bridgio, we build communities as our go-to-market strategy, or excuse me, we build communities as the go-to-market strategy for our clients. So it's really important that our client, and your use case is a little bit different. I'll get to that. But right now, uh a business comes to me and says, Hey, our buyer persona is this person. It's customer support executives, it's CTOs of SaaS companies, it's B2B growth marketers, whatever, whatever that persona is. Um we have a conversation around that. I I want to explore how well they know their persona. Do they know what their challenges are? Do they know what they're thinking about right now? Do they know how they talk about their challenges? And the most important one is do they even like their buyer persona? And that one is not so common, I would say. It's not as it's probably not as common as you'd think. But that part of like, do we even like our buyer persona is really important because it's going to tell me how much you want to invest and how much time you want to spend with understanding and learning your in learning that buyer and their you know their persona. So we have a conversation about that first. Then what I'll usually do is um spend a spend a couple meetings identifying what's keeping these people up at night. What are some of the big biggest things? I mean, across the board, we've built over 45 different communities. And right now, across all of our communities, what I'm seeing is it's AI is everything. Like I don't know if there's a single community where we're not talking about AI, which is pretty mind-boggling when it comes to adoption and disruption. Like, that's when's the last time that a single topic dominated every single group's discussion. Now I'm building business communities, so that's a little bit different. So what that process is all about is it's identifying the commonly shared overlapping experiences that they are thinking about on an everyday basis. So now for you and your employees, it might be questions about um how you guys work. It might be questions about how you like to spend your time not working. Um, it might be questions about uh skills, specific skills that you have or that you're excited about. There's a lot of different ways to like think about what is it that the persona that you are going to be helping build initial relationships digitally, what are the commonality, common language that they have that gives us that launching point to deeper discussions? So that's how I would um be thinking about that. And then from there, you just you design your connection experiences around those types of things. So inviting people to come prepared with you know, what's one uh what's one AI implementation that you're looking to do this quarter or this month? What's what's one that worked out really well last month? Where how is it gonna impact your employees? Uh there's so many questions that that you could ask, but then I think that's the next piece is is finding the questions that are gonna unlock really great conversations. So, number one is the the way I like to explain this, I don't know if this makes sense to people in general. It definitely makes sense in my mind. But when I was taking chemistry in college, we talked about the noble gases, right? Carbon, oxygen, etc. Um, hydrogen. So if you take oxygen particles and you hydrogen particles and you put them in a room or you just put them together, you are going to get two hydrogens, one oxygen bonding, H2O. So you create water. Um, so I like to think about the who as my noble gases. So if I simply just put these noble gases in a room, if if I am intentional about who it is that I'm inviting to this event, then I just barely have to push them, and they are the bond is gonna happen. And and boom, you get H2O, something completely brand new. Oxygen, hydrogen, boom, H2Os. Completely new, right? So, so that I think is important to identify is the who. And the who is defined by the shared experience. That's how you figure out, that's one of the first steps to figuring out the noble gases is um, okay, what is the commonly shared experience? Now, when we're building uh business communities, the common shared experience is pretty easy and straightforward for us. Most of the time, it's going to be your role and title at a company. Um, that makes it very easy because CFOs are like, yeah, I need to talk to other CFOs, and CTOs are like, yeah, I need to understand from other CTOs, etc. Um, but there's a lot of different ways to define um the who, uh, but making sure that you're inviting those with that shared experience. So the who is is is number one, and then the number two is the what, and the what is the questions. So within that scope of um commonality, what are the questions that help drive them to an uncertainty question? Something that they can unpack.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Okay. Interesting. No, that makes yeah, that's uh that makes a lot of sense. And then I I um I guess it's the my mind goes then how b how important is the setting in which you're have these people in the room and ask or putting this catalyst, these questions in. Uh, you know, like it's like it I keep my mind keeps going to something, um, you know, like I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a fairly new golfer, right? So I'm uh about a year ago I joined a golf club, and uh I've recently been getting out a lot more and I've been meeting new people. Uh and some of the some of the people I've met over the last couple of weeks have been s truly incredible people, and like I really feel like you know, obviously meeting people at a golf course on a T-sheet, you know, random people on a T shit T-sheet uh that you've never met before automatically uh qualifies that you have golf in common. And then now I so happen to be playing with two scratch golfers who were a lot lot better than I. Um but that didn't like you know, and that's where like you're going back to the uh the hedge fund manager and the surgeon or uh we were talking about earlier, like uh in comparison to them, I'm a terrible golfer. Uh but it did not in any way it get in the way of how uh how the connection formed. Um because what was in common was uh I you know like the thing I have in common with them is not the skill yet, but it is uh the intention that I like one day I want to be of their skill level. So we have the same things in common of that pursuit of something that is not possible in golf and you know, and in a lot of other things in business of perfect. Um but so you have to love that journey uh because you that's all it ever is. There is no destination in something like golf or business or a lot of pursuits. Um, and I feel like I'm attracted to things like that. Um and a golf like I and I love I've loved those uh the connections I've made uh playing golf with complete strangers. I've I've got one of my best friends now. I met uh my first day at that golf club last year um on T Box One uh and never met him before, and now we uh we're very good friends, and uh he's a great partner in business and helps has helped tens of my clients uh with uh what he does. Um and I just feel like it hits a checks a lot of boxes, like it has the outdoor component. Um but then also it's it's uh there's I don't know, there's something about you know like you know, when someone else hits a really good drive, even if you didn't hit it, like you kind of feel that energy like of uh of how like how great that was, and then you could feed off it.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Some robbery, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

And it's like similarly, you know, you can you can similarly feel it sometimes when if uh you know if you're playing around with a negative person uh who's throwing their clubs and pouting and just has all this bad you know bad energy because you do you come across that too, um then you start playing shitty as well. It rubs off on you, and I feel like just that um in just in life, it's uh being able to surround yourself with people that uh that energy frequency feeds off each other uh is like is so important to to everything. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, in your example, golf is a proxy for people that hold the same values to come together, at least that's what you're kind of saying in your own experience.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Um, people that want to self-improve, people that want to um master a craft, um, people that are willing to fail and and try to get better. And so that's what creates that kind of camaraderie or shared energy together is golf became a proxy to bringing the noble gases in the same place so that connection could happen. Um, one thing that I think about in regard to this uh is that I I often think about this is that men in general, males in general, human males, uh the research shows connect with parallel play. So it's better for a male to be doing something um in parallel with another male in order for them to connect. So, in your example as well, golf is a really good example. Um, you're in a parallel pursuit, but that enables you to have conversation because you're doing something, right? Um, women tend to, at least what the statistics show, is they tend to connect more cerebrally. Um, so through conversation, things like that. So if you're trying to create an experience for both, that's where things get kind of interesting, right? Is is you want to create kind of this feeling of parallel play, but you also want to have enough cerebral conversation that people both sexes feel that they can connect and contribute and move forward in terms of this really ugly word called networking, and how are we going to change that? So those are just some thoughts that I had in regard to um the benefits of participating in like a sport or participating in choir or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Interesting. I um and that does make sense uh when you think about it. Um like I feel like uh I definitely am someone who uh even in social settings like uh with friends, like I like I would much rather uh go and hang out with friends and be doing an activity than sitting at a bar. I feel like uh so much more happens uh um on a connection level by actually you know doing an activity. But um so that makes a lot of sense. And on the topic of uh like you know the other hobbies and projects, um you've you told me uh before we before we started recording, you've been working on another project, and I feel like it's I feel like this could uh you know there's interlap a little bit and at least on like the energetic level, but uh you called it power breathing, and I saved it for this uh part of the conversation uh because to ask more, but can you tell me a bit about your power breathing project you've been working on?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, so it's it's kind of a hobby, if you will, a passion project, but I'm I'm having a lot of fun uh with it. So some of the most powerful personal experiences that I have had have come through power breathing, whether it's like a Wim Hof type breathing or whether it's um an instructor just kind of guiding you through a breathing process. Um if you haven't read the book James or excuse me, Breathe or Breath by James Nestor, highly recommend it. It's really, really good. Um, a few years ago, I was invited up to an event. It was a power breathing event. And um I showed up, and there's about 40 of us in the room, and we do a short meditation and um we start power breathing. And the instructor was like, We're we're going to, this instructor was a Wim Hof instructor. So he said, We're we're gonna rev you up so that uh you're gonna have some experiences, like a fight or flight type of an experience. And so we start breathing, deep breathing in, uh diaphragmatic breathing, in through the diaphragm, up through the chest, and then out again, like rapidly over and over again. Um, and we we we got faster and faster and faster. And then he asked the question, like, go somewhere, like your family is threatened. How are you gonna protect them? And we had just moved back from Alaska, and I remember hiking up in Alaska, and I had my little three-year-old or two-year-old on a front pouch or uh on a front uh backpack, and we were hiking through the through the underbrush, and this guy comes down, he's like, Hey, there's a bear up there. And I just I'm like, How the heck am I gonna defend my family? I'm like, I'm the guy that has to do this, right? And so that visualization came back. But then as we were going deeper and deeper, there was actually a point where I went um rafting in the Amazon, and long story short, I fell out of the raft and I got sucked into this really powerful micro Eddie that was grabbing me and just pulling me under and just taking me through the washing machine, and then it'd kick me out and then it'd pull me back in again. And I got recirculated like four times. I thought, I thought I was going to die. And that experience, that panic came back in this breathing process. And um, so I had to kind of work through that feeling of that panic and kind of readdress what was happening, what happened, you know, in Ecuador and all this stuff. And then at the end, I had just an incredible, powerful experience, uh, like a personal experience. And then I was invited again a few months later. We we did some power breathing again, and I had another really, really powerful experience. And so um building on this idea of like, how do we create even more interesting shared experiences in real life? I've just started to kind of pursue that and and try to learn that. So I'm getting Wim Hof certified right now, learning that method, um, learning, you know, uh researching, studying, and and doing some visual visualizations on top of uh the Wim Hof breathing. In fact, kind of funny story. I just had some some friends over. So at my house, we've got a sauna and a cold plunge. And um so I'm I'm sauna and cold plunge all the time, but now we're doing this power breathing beforehand. Well, we did that and it was great, amazing experience. My sauna is a barrel sauna, and if anyone out there has barrel saunas, they get really loosey goosey over time. Mine's like six years old. And um the The door does not magnetically shut anymore. So, what I ended up doing about a year ago is I took a big block of wood and I just put it on the outside because the door would open in storms and I just didn't want that glass to break. So I got this block of wood that's just a lever that I put over the door to keep the door shut when it's not being used. And we were sauning last night, and um normally that little lever, I push it over here, you know, and then you can open the door. And so we got in and we shut the door. We're in, you know, 190 degrees for like 20 minutes. It's like, hey, let's, it's time to get out. So I go to push the door out, and as I'm moving, I must have shook the barrel or something. That wooden block goes. And me and my two buddies are inside 190 degree sauna, and I'm like, guys, we cannot panic. I turn the sauna off. I'm like, we can't get out. I never thought that this would happen, ever. Anyway, they're making fun of me because it's like that's such a dumb design. I'm like, well, come over to my house. You try to figure out how to solve this stupid door problem, right? Never thought that would happen. So we're going down the list. I look at my Apple Watch. My Apple Watch is dead. I look over at my buddy. I can't make a call on my Apple Watch. My buddy doesn't bring his Apple Watch in because you know it ruins the Apple Watch. So I'm like, great. Other buddy, he does have an Apple Watch, but his phone is upstairs. So we're not even sure if the Apple Watch is going to actually get a call out. Because at this, at this point, it's either break through the grass the glass and risk like severe cuts, or um call someone and have them rescue us. So anyway, long story short, we ended up calling my wife. Luckily, she picked up uh well, we couldn't get a call out because the phone was too far away, but we could get a text. So we were in there trying not to freak out for like 10 minutes. And anyway, so she she finally came down and like opened it for us. But man, let me tell you, that was intense. Uh but it goes back to this, you know, uh, when you go through these power breathing experiences and like this, I I just have I felt personally for me that yoga um today and meditation today uh is awesome and it has uh more of a feminine energy to it, right? And I think that power breathing, and and I think what Wim Hof discovered, and all of those guys um they discovered the masculine side of meditation. And so I think there's an opportunity there to expand that. Not you know, you have to have both. You have to have feminine and masculine. It's it's part of all of us, right? Um, but I think there's an opportunity to expand and explore and and learn more of like what masculine energy is, what it can be, and how it can help us. And so I think power breathing and cold plunge and kind of that kind of stuff is is in line with that type of um that type of uh of an approach.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

That's awesome. Um yeah, no, I I I do visualization and meditation and every morning, but um never that side of uh what you're talking about with the power breathing. And uh so I think uh uh I know you're you're working on uh you're working on a project uh at the moment and uh but when it's when you're uh when you're ready with that, I'd I think I'd definitely love to uh love to check it out and uh experience that, but uh maybe not with uh maybe making sure that uh your Apple Watch is uh charged in someone's home.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, yeah. I mean the other option is to just carry a hatchet around with you to make it, but that would be too intimidating, probably.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

So Yeah, no, yeah. I yeah, you you wouldn't scare me, but a complete stranger uh if they came over to get in get in the sauna with you in a hatchet, uh maybe could put someone off.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Well, yeah, and and just kind of as a teaser, um and the the the project that I'm working on right now is this I've been just experimenting with it going through power breathing, but adding visualization on top of that. So the first thing that we started to do was how do you take yourself out of where you're at right now? And can I actually get you to craft an experience? I read something once that when you visualize in your brain, your like, for example, if you visualize eating food, you your brain doesn't know the difference. Um the same neurons fire or something like that. So I'm sure we could look that up. But uh, in fact, I'll look it up after this because uh I remember listening to something about if you're if you visualize eating, there's it's no different than like the neurons that actually fire when you do eat. So that just suggests to you the power of the brain, meaning that yeah, you can go to a physical experience, but could you also go somewhere just in your mind and have the same type of adrenaline or the same type of experience? And so the visualizations that I'm adding on top of this power breathing is basically um, how can we go? You know, like for example, you're a Viking, uh, you get called to battle, you have to row the boat, you go to battle, you have you have to row back. So you create this story arc with this one type of um profile or this one type of you know story line, and then you let people go through that experience so it takes them out of themselves. It enables everyone that's in the room to go through the same experience, but then internally they're all gonna have different experiences, and so then at the end we just kind of talk about it. And so, anyway, that's that's what I'm working on right now, and uh I'm having a blast. It's it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

No, that's awesome. I can't wait to I can't wait to see it. Um so we finish uh each episode with a question. Um the podcast is no trade secrets. So um what is one uh trade secret that you don't think should be a secret anymore?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

What is one trade secret that you don't think should be a secret anymore? Um adaptability, I I would say this idea of of scarcity meaning like we have our IP, we have our our technology, like this is what this is our moat. The moats are going away. AI is completely disrupting the moats right now. And so really the the more less secretive you can be, the better off I think you're gonna be. That and the more that you can actually like spending time with your customer persona, enjoy your customer persona and want to be with them, I think that's gonna be massive. But the companies that I think are gonna win in the future are gonna be the ones that are closest to their closest to their customers. Um, and the only way to get closest to your customers is going to be opening up your roadmap even more. It's going to be incorporating your customers even more into the build process because the build process cycle is is way, way shorter than it's ever been. So you're gonna have to kind of open up all these things that you thought you were gonna have to protect and you've wanted to protect. I think that that's gonna continually be challenged. And the companies that win are gonna be the companies that are pretty um pretty transparent in what they are building, what they want to build, and it's just going to be about nailing it.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Amazing. Thank you, Paul. Um, no, thank you for I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all that um with me. And uh we will have your uh links to your to your website, to your LinkedIn to help people can reach you and get in touch with you in the show notes. But uh what's the best way for someone to uh check out what you're doing, uh get a hold of you.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

DM me on LinkedIn. I'd love to chat about it. If you've got ideas for anything we've talked about today, let's connect.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Awesome. Thank you so much, Paul.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Thanks for having me, Drew. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

See you, man. All right.