A Hand Up, Not a Handout: Building Multi-Generational Success and a Bulletproof Team w/ Bill Hynes (Part 2) - Ep. 43

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yeah, even like you could say, oh, that person, his dad was a billionaire or whatever. Well, look at the president of the United States. His dad was a multimillionaire, right? But guess what? Like, he like you know how many people out there that have rich fathers that just take the money and then squander it. And I'll go to the next story of uh another mentor, okay? And uh it's um so so just because you have access to money or you went to a good school because your dad paid off the registrar to get you into the school or things like that, that doesn't mean you're gonna be successful or gonna know what to do with it, or actually have the intelligence or the drive to become something. So, you know, um in York, Pennsylvania, there's a family called the Kinsley family. The dad worked his ass off. They had, and they call them the big red machine, some people. They the dad started with a pickup truck and a wheelbarrow and you know, in the 60s and 70s, and he busted his ass. And you know what he and he had five sons, okay? And all of them, all five, worked their asses off, busted their ass. Not one one lazy person, okay. And they built this into a big behemoth of a company, okay. And everything they do is excellent, okay. And they have like 1,500 employees, they make billions of dollars a year in revenue off of that dad. So now here's the thing. Now, conversely, my one mentor, his name was Louis Appel Jr., okay. He had a son, okay. His son never worked an honest job in his life. His son got into Harvard because of you know of daddy. Okay, daddy paying a lot of money to Harvard, right? His he his son, yeah, he worked for dad's company. He was a substitute teacher. You know, when when dad died, you know, yeah, he had all this money, but he didn't have the brains enough to understand like what technology was. You know, he took over for the company. It was in our company, uh, United Fiber Data. And he didn't he didn't understand, you know, the technology, didn't understand where things were going. And you know what? He he's probably hurt his family's legacy more than he helped it. And that's unfortunate. Whereas you take the Kinsley family, and like they even have like a whole like legacy plan to where it's like, okay, you know, you got G1, Generation 1, Generation 2, Generation 2 usually fucks it up with the Kinsley family. Generation 2 crushed it. And generation three and generation four. So John Kinsley, rest his soul. Uh, he he passed away. He was one of the brothers, is one of the brothers for the Kinsley family. Great guy. Um, he lost his life, you know, unfortunately, in an avalanche a few years ago. And uh, out of all the Kinsleys, I was kind of closest to him. And he would, he would, it makes me laugh every time I say it's like, hey, you know, in our family, you got to work to be part of, like, if you want a job, you can get a job, but you're gonna have to work. Like, there's no free passes. If you want to, so he was also like a peer mentor to me, as I said. You know, there's different types. And he's saying, like, if you want a job, well, you can have a job, but you're gonna work for it. So there's not gonna be like, you know, you ever see back in the day in the mafia movies, like somebody would have a no-show job pay, like you think, like, oh, I'm part of the family, I just just get on the payroll, not with them. Like, you aren't just gonna be on the payroll and not show up because daddy owned the company, not gonna happen. And then, so if you want it to be part of like any of the the family trust or get paid, like you had to put in work for the company. So he goes, but also if you want, he would say this: he goes, if you want it to be a ballerina, go and be a ballerina and see what that pays you. But we're not paying you from the family for you to go be a ballerina, we'll support you, meaning, like, hey, good luck with that. But we're we're not, you know, we're working here in a real business, in a real company with like that's hard work. So, like, you know, Bob Kinsley had his sons, all five of them, on construction sites and work boots and like busting their ass, learning the trades, like like one became an architect, one became an electrical engineer, like one became a mechanical engineer. So it's really a testament to that. Um so sorry for the long-winded answer, and I was all over the place with it, but it really it's really about the person and the integrity of the person, you know, and uh and on how they take what they're given. And like again, you can have um uh all the money in the world starting out, but you can squander it. You know, you can, you know, there's people out there that their parents are wealthy, they have like the best start, and what they do is they shove it up their nose or they pour it down their stomach and they become alcoholics or drug addicts because woe is me. Whereas like you, you know, you take a guy like myself who came from the inner city, or you know, certain or the like the five Kinsley boys, and it's like, you know what, we're gonna take that baton and we're gonna we're gonna go forward, we're gonna crush it. So long story short, it taught what what Joe, and I'm not gonna say his last name for privacy reasons, but what Joe taught me is uh kindness. So be show compassion, be kind, and and uh you know, if the per if you deem the person is worthy enough, you know, you know, offer him a hand. Yeah, not a hand out, but a hand.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, big difference. And uh I'm curious because I feel like the example with the Kinsey family is the outlier uh in those kind of scenarios, you know, you said Generation 2 is usually the one that ruins it all. And then I mean, how many how many American films uh that the main characters or the you know it's all sit around you know a billionaire family? Um how many of those movies have the second generation being you know in that exact same way where they are they want they're getting handouts and they're uh kind of cup they come they go through life with uh you know this expectation of uh of that they are owed things and that things are going to be done for them. Where do you where do you think what do you think made the Kinsey family different? Because um, you know, on I think it's important on any scale, any, you know, because you know I'm a first generation immigrant, uh, and I started this with my last six hundred dollars in my bank account. And um and I I th as my wife and I approach uh you know the c uh hopefully being ready to start having children uh in the next year or two, uh something I think about a lot is how you know what is that parenting style to uh you know, obviously you you can do a parent can only do so much, right? The it's down to the individual to m make the decision, but um like how to you know r reduce the possibility of that being, you know, because you know, like I do everything that I do um because I want to create a life for my wife and my future kids uh that we're all happy we we get to experience, you know, all really around creating memories and experiences together and um and being able to uh be present and uh you know hold on to and cherish the most elusive thing uh that you can never get back with being time, uh without without having you know, without creating these like spoilt monsters that um you know that uh have this you know have a sense of entitlement. Um so what what did you what what yeah, what did the what did the Kinsies do differently?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Um I I'd like to say, you know, so I would say that and again it's they're from the same town, so or anyone like I would say that I I don't think that the fathers or the parents were the difference. I mean, meaning in a bad way. I I think I think they both got great parenting, okay. So I think it really does come down to like the kids having it, and where I was like, I think with the Kinsley family, I think one, they were all competitive, they all wanted to probably outdo each other, and they knew that by doing that it collectively brought up the good of the whole, okay. And um I I really do just think it it comes down to the individual. I really do. I think like, yeah, like like even me, like you know, my mom, I would say, you know, subliminally, or in the back of my mind, I would see her go to work all the time and try to go to work and work two or three jobs, you know, even though we were still on welfare, it's like, okay, because she needs assistance because we had six kids, single mom, six kids on welfare, right? So, you know, um just couldn't make enough. Um, so she was like, all right, well, I gotta get another job, get another job, need assistance. Um, and so you know, in the back of my head, but but other than that, it was like, okay, everything else was like I kind of learned on my own. And it's really about learning, like, you know, wrong from right, you know, kind from being to being mean to being kind. Um, so I I don't think there's some secret. I just think you're either a good person or you're a shitty person. I really do. I think I think there are people that wake up in the morning, literally they go, how can I be an absolute fucking asshole today? I absolutely believe that. Sorry for going there, but I really do. And I think there's other people like, you know what? I'm gonna be kind today. I'm gonna choose kindness, you know. But don't get me wrong, there's some people, there's some people that like I like to say, people get the version of me that they deserve. Because I'll always leave with kindness. And if they come at me, in even in business, personal, it's like there's two things to any negotiation. There's there's price and terms, can't have both. So if if we're in a negotiation, and it could be even a personal negotiation, it could be a uh it could be uh, and you could change price and terms to two different items, okay? Like let's just say you and your wife are negotiating, you know, where to go on a date or whether to buy something, when to have kids, you know, like you're gonna want something, she's gonna want something. One side can't, you know, have everything. And the minute one side thinks that they're gonna hijack the conversation or hijack the deal, then that gives you the right to then be like, oh, okay, well, I tried to be 50-50 on this. I tried to be like, hey, like if you're selling a building and you want 800K, right? Great. I'm agreeing to your 800K, but here are my terms. I'm gonna give you a million dollars. So you're gonna get your 800K at closing, you're gonna hold a 200k second. I'll pay you over five years, and you know the building supports it because you have the building leased up. So those are the and and by the way, it would take 60 days to close. So those are my terms, and I gave you your number. And in that, they're like, okay, I agree. Now the minute's like, you know what? Uh great, thanks for my 800k, but I also need you to close in three days. So those are my terms. It's like, well, I gave you your number, and now you're trying to dictate the terms. You're trying to be do the hijack the whole conversation or the whole uh negotiation, can't have both. So then now it'd be like, well, now my price is 700k. So it's like that's where it kind of goes. Um, so in any situation, you know, so um I'd say in every in every situation, always try to lead with kindness and be fair. And then if the other person becomes an adversary and doesn't subscribe to the kindness and to the fairness, then fuck them up.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah, it's it's I'm laughing because I'm laughing because uh the that you know that exact thing has been something that um that uh I've had to learn how to do uh in the last few years, especially. Um you know, I've always I've always been someone uh you know, I th you know I think uh a lot of people would you know uh describe as uh nice, super nice, super kind. And especially the word nice, like when I started my my business, uh when I first started it, and uh around the same time, I a good one of our best friends, uh um the wife uh said we're talking about something I can't remember the context, and said uh that uh it was something about how how nice of a person I am, which is like a a huge compliment. But then now I'm uh I've just started my business and I was thinking about this, and I'm like, and I saw that I'm like, am I a am I a pushover? And and then as time has gone on, I've had to learn uh and it's uh you know uh whether you know as messed up as it sounds, uh especially one example in particular, uh beginning of this year, we had a uh we had a huge client, uh, you know, a big revenue client, and uh and I was uh you know going out of my way to be kind uh and to go and to really try and help a situation uh for them that they needed a lot of help with. And uh, you know, to my own detriment, where I'm uh, you know, this is you know it's our you know, all the all hours of the week every day, uh I'm just kinda at their beck and call. But it's from this desire to to really help with this problem. And then it was when uh it it was then there was a a scenario where uh within a couple of days uh of each other there was I couldn't I didn't pick up the phone on Sunday, on a Sunday, because uh my wife and I were were uh over at uh her brother's house and we were spending time with our nieces. And that was brought up uh that I was unavailable and I was like, okay, like that was the first thing, but then there was this outside uh outside uh consultant, we can call it, who wasn't the client, and I remember uh it was after I after I pulled uh one of the longest days uh that I've had and spent ten plus hours working just on this problem because of this timeline um that they were trying to meet that you know it was at the end at the end of it, it was it was it really was an almost impossible time frame to get this done and solved by. Uh but I sure as shit tried and uh and we did by the end of it, but regardless, this uh this this consultant, this outside consultant, who's not the my client, the day after that that day, I'm we're I'm talking through some things. And when I especially when it comes to these complex uh financial problems and challenges that take a lot of navigating and digging in, and it's it's not so simple as you know to some questions are not a simple one-sentence answer. Um and so I s yeah, I was asked a question, that was one of those complex ones. I started answering it, and uh I was maybe ten seconds into the explanation, and this guy interrupts me. And you know, he's a he's a his his day job is he's a financial analyst on page 11 of his New York City finance investment companies directory page. Uh you know, he he interrupts me and says, um, I'm sorry, I'm he's uh I'm gonna interrupt you. Can you please uh answer in like uh can you please uh answer in you know one sentence or less? Um like okay, and that's the first time after that that I had to turn on what you're talking about, because uh a certain point you have to stop being uh you know, you you you've realized you're being a pushover. And then it came out of the complete blue to them when we I I fired them. And I don't I don't know if you remember the first time that you've you'd had to do that, but it felt very liberating and almost felt like in like it was like this this weird feeling of like wow coming down on like in a scenario like that where you know, in my opinion, it was justified, it kind of felt good to be a little bad in that in that scenario, you know, like it because I'd I've never been someone like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, and I never take joy in that, but it's actually funny. Some of my like friends or employees, they they kind of enjoy it more than I do, I'd say. I it's like just I'd say, yeah, that's a necessary evil. Whereas like, example, I really do it when it more so affects my people. So when I say my people, it's like if somebody's rude to one of my employees, or if like let's just say my assistant calls somebody to get something done, and they're just like whatever, and it's like, well, they wouldn't say that to me, and I call up, it's like, why'd you talk to her that way? Or if another employee, like if if my assistant goes tells somebody like a couple weeks ago, we fired somebody, she told him what to do. She asked him where he was. He kept coming in late and late and late and late. And then um, she's like, you know, he just disrespects me. Uh, and she's in charge of the scheduling. And I was like, All right, like, what do you want to do? She goes, I think he needs to go. He just doesn't understand, you know, our culture here, and that, you know, by him being two and a half hours late, it's affecting the other people who are waiting on him. Because we do live streaming here all over the world. So we do TikTok shop on the second floor as a whole, we built out a whole e-commerce studio to where we're streaming live all over the world. So if we have a live host on and they're waiting for their relief so they go eat and take a break, you know, you being two hours late really fucks your teammate, right? Yeah. And to be flippant about and be like, eh, I don't give a fuck. Well, hey, hey, if you don't give a fuck about your coworker, like I don't care about me, but your own coworker, then we don't need you here in this culture in this community because we're all about helping each other. So um for me, and this has caused me problems in my life, okay? There I've done this from a young age, okay. Like, I and I I know I've saved my, but here's the thing I've I've saved myself a lot of issues, I think, because of it. Yeah, it causes problems. Like um, I've checked people, like I don't let people get over even an inch. Like, I check them right away. And a lot of them are like, like the other day, I was on a call with a guy, and um he says, uh we're we're doing a construction site, okay? And we're putting these very expensive generators on the site. They're like one megawatt generators are like 2.7 million dollars a piece, right? And I said, I need this temporary, it's like a generator and has uh the solar panels and they have cameras, right? So I said. I want the one that has the four cameras. Okay. So then he goes, Oh, do you have a crane there? I was like, Why do I need a crane? And he's like, Well, because you, you know, you're we're gonna need it, we're gonna put them on a flatbed. And I said, and and then drop them off to you. I was like, why would you need a flatbed to drop off something that's a trailer? Just drive it over. I said, Is that typical? That's kind of stupid. He goes, Well, you said you needed four trailers. I said, I did not say four trailers, I said four cameras. And he and and then he goes, No, no, no. So even like that, he's like, You said four trailers. I said, like, to me, it's like, okay, he's trying to gaslight me and whatever. I said, Listen, I'm your customer. I'm trying to do business with you. I know what the fuck I said. So let's get past that and just give me the quote for one trailer that has four cameras because you have multiple versions. One has two cameras. So it was like that. So even something as little as that, like I won't let, like, I don't let somebody just glance over that and I just like, you know what? I'm not gonna let you change the conversation. I'm not gonna let you rewrite fucking history and I will check you. And then a lot of people don't like that. A lot of people, but to me, that's like I'm not gonna let that person live their lie, you know. I just so sometimes I'm not I'm not suggesting anyone do that. I'm just saying like that's what works for me. Um, but a lot of people will be like, oh, that guy's an asshole because you know, but whatever. But so you just have to know when to do that, you know. But in your situation, when you terminated them, it's like, hey, they probably deserve that shit. But you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Well, in that situation, uh, when I finally did it, my wife says, 'Bout time.' Uh, and I'm like, Wow. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it is. The uh the tolerance was way too high. But to your point, those little details matter, um and you know, especially in in a person's word and what they say and and you know what they're meaning. But then especially when it goes to your team, um, when you're saying about uh, you know, like if someone's rude to your team and uh and you know, like I I very much, you know, I was smiling when you're saying that because I feel the exact same way. It's like my tolerance for someone being rude to me uh in our business is a hell of a lot higher than it is if you disrespect someone on my team. Because to me, you know, my team is my family, and like, you know, kind of similarly to how you're you know you're talking about like the Kinsey family, it's like I love everyone on my team, genuinely love them. Um and that's because to be on this team, you have to earn your spot and continuously, you know, continuously uh mm be part of the team and make make a difference and and um and and grow and so um and so anyone who does that I have infinite love for and so then that's where it crosses that line. It's like this is not you know it's not just employees, this is this is my this is my family to me, and so then you get a lot more protective over that, and it's it's funny you and you when you're talking about if if you know if you know that guy being late and how that lets down the other people on the team, how much of this way of thinking because I think a lot of teams uh companies uh a lot you know tolerate tolerate that too much from uh people and there's different standards in different teams, and what that does to the morale of a of a culture and a company team is so cancerous, and it's very cancerous. And you know, like how much of your view on that comes from you know, first the military, obviously, I think probably instilled a lot of that in you, but even before the military, it was from baseball and you know football and you know all that, you know. And I'm a baseball player too, ex-baseball player, and you know, it's uh in baseball too. It's you know, you you guys need to put a run across the plate. You have a guy on second, the the guy who you know, are you the guy that gets up there and tries to hit the two-run homer, or do you got none out and you put down the bunt and give your time team a chance?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Get him over, get him over, get him in.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah. And it's like that self- that you know, that's where like uh you know, I think you know, there's been a lot of super teams even in professional sports that have had a bunch of stars, but then it's you know like the 76ers for because like when when you have a bunch of stars that all want to be a bunch of individuals on a team, then it's it, you know, you can see in those in those different you know sports settings, it it often doesn't work. But uh you know, with you being coming from a racing background, I I watched uh I was watching the Formula One Netflix documentary last year, and it was the first time I've really seen uh you know inside of like a professional racing environment, and I realized how important the you know teams have two, obviously on the track, but how important they were to each other, and you could see in some of those races where the teams would uh have two DNFs because the two teammates are racing to try and uh to try and uh one up, you know, finish ahead of the other teammate in the race, and then they they they hit uh they hit each other and they connect and they both fizzle out and crash.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Racing's different though, if you think about it. Like they they say it's teammates, but think think about this though. If you and me are on a team racing, okay, and you're a racer, okay, and your team manager goes, All right, you know, get behind Bill and let him win today. That just goes against who you are as a racer, okay? It just it just goes against like well, I'm in this car to win the race, too, so I don't care that he's going for a championship. If I can win the race and get a bigger prize and get the trophy, like this is what I'm doing, like to lay down in racing. So it's like I agree with it, but I disagree with maybe a bitter analogy.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Have you ever seen uh the Tour de France?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Maybe that's a bitter analogy because you have those guys in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

So you're on the bicycle, and you like why why does like even when like the US Postal Service they had Lance Armstrong and everyone was like, okay, hey, I'm gonna be the rabbit, and it's like they have the team, like I'm on a bicycle too. Why can't I win? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Like no, so I I get that part, like where it could go against your DNA, but I think it's a part of it is knowing your role in the whole. Uh because I remember uh I remember when I was maybe uh 11 years old, I was watching the Tour de France every morning with my dad back in New Zealand because it would be on early in the morning. Uh and it was so interesting to me watching that, and I remember it was w it was when I haven't watched it uh since I was an early teenager. But watching it was it was Team Sky. Um and it was I can't remember. I think it was it was Bradley Wiggins, and I remember and he was the guy who was uh who was the guy from the team that is you know was the team lead, and that's who everyone else on the team was rallying behind to. Uh and you know, assisting in him being able to win these races and win the Tour de France. And then one of the guys who was his support, you know, and I don't know the technical names for those you know, those positions in cycling, but one of those guys the year that he won was a it was Chris Chris From or Chris Froom, who then went on to win four, I think, because he did his part that year and then he was then he got his turn.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Um yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah. I know.